The Lifestyle MD

Episode 015: Prioritizing Mental Health & Managing Holiday Stress: A Conversation Roneidra Lucky, CNM

• Dr. Angela Andrews • Episode 15

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What if taking a proactive stance towards mental health could save you from the brink of a crisis? Get ready to uncover this truth as we welcome Roneidra Lucky CNM, a nurse, midwife, and advocate for therapy. We dive into her journey with therapy, emphasizing the crucial role it plays in the lives of high-achieving women. She provides an honest account of her experiences, aiming to dismantle the stigma attached to therapy and encourage more women to invest in their mental health.

We explore how to navigate the Holiday Season without compromising on mental health. We share advice on creating rich memories without straining your finances, setting boundaries, and prioritizing mental health amid the festivities. . Tune in to this enlightening episode and empower yourself with the right tools to sustain your mental health and overall well-being in this busy season.

For an added treat, take a listen to "Boundaries Feat. Tired & Exhausted" by
Durand Bernarr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xjdM2qFMa8.


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Angela Andrews, MD:

Welcome to the Lifestyle MD podcast, the podcast dedicated to high achieving women who are conquering their careers while striving for total wellness. I am Dr Angela Andrews and I am thrilled to be your guide on this journey. Alright, hello, welcome to another episode of the Lifestyle MD. I am Dr Angela, your host, and I have a special guest here with me today. I'm with one of my besties going way back to middle school, who is a nurse, midwife and gosh. We, we spent a lot of time talking about the woes of healthcare, woes of mental health, woes of all the things, and I am so happy to have her on today. Rani Drah, lucky, can you go ahead and tell the audience who you are, what you do, what your hobbies and interests are? Educational background, all the good stuff. Well, thank, you.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Thank you, thanks for having me. Yeah, like you said, I'm Rani Drah and we have known each other for a very long time. I am a certified nurse midwife, so it's basically a nurse practitioner that also delivers babies, so I do hospital deliveries and then I also provide women's care in the office setting. I have a bachelor's degree in psychology from Central Michigan University. I have a bachelor's degree in nursing from Michigan State University and I have a master's degree in nurse midwifery from Wayne State University. So professional student schooling and because of my psychology background, I enjoy talking with people about their mental health and their journey and just giving any treatment that I can along the way.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Alright, thank you for that introduction, Neidra. So last night celebrated my birthday, your husband's birthday, and we got into some conversations about mental health. This is something that you and I are both very passionate about. Your audience, or your patients, are primarily women. Right, and by no choice of my own, just by selection bias most of my patients are women as well, and so women I mean men and women both have mental health challenges, but are uniquely seeing think we a lot of those challenges that moms, working moms, professional women face just in life in general, and there's some things that I like for you to share, just in your personal experience, and we can have a dialogue about that. So, first things first. What is the first piece of advice you give anyone who might be facing mental health challenges, or people who think they have no issues at all and everything is hunky dory?

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

So I all the time that everybody needs a therapist. You should just have one in your back pocket, because you never know what life is going to throw at you. I wish that it was more normalized, so that that was there, the stigma was gone, and that everyone can, just as they can be. I personally, I originally sought therapy when I knew that I was going to have weight loss surgery because I skills were eating and I didn't have any other coping skills. Besides that, and after I started seeing my therapist, all of these other life events happened, and it was just one cascade after another of things that I had no clue were going to come, and I've been seeing her for the last five years.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah, amazing Full disclosure. Need to introduce me to her and she is now my therapist and she's great.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Yes, and you just never know, and it's easier to seek help when you are in crisis mode, and so I was glad that I was able to do that. We do have great resources in West Michigan as far as urgent care type things for health, but you really need to establish that relationship because you have to kind of date your therapist I mean it's kind of like speed dating sometimes to find a good fit. Everybody's not going to be great for everyone, so it is a process. So it is a little bit easier to do if you're not in full crisis mode.

Angela Andrews, MD:

And I think that's an important point that you make. A lot of times when patients are coming to see me, it's in. We're having this conversation. It's usually by you know, at the point where things are starting to fall apart. Maybe there are things going on in their life that were affecting them that either they were in denial about or they just didn't want to talk to me about, and it's finally reached the point where they are don't want to go to bed or they don't have the energy to do anything. Maybe they're about to lose their job and they don't have, they can't add one more thing to their plate, even if it involves looking for a therapist. So trying to do that in that crisis mode is very challenging, and it's one of the things that delays people from getting help. Would you agree? Yes, definitely.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

There's not enough therapists to go around so often there's a waitlist and then when you do get matched up with somebody, you have to make sure that it's a good fit and for some reason, women especially look we always want it to be something else. So I have women coming to me wanting to get their thyroid level checked or their estrogen level checked, because they think that that's the source of their and their depression. It's like no press, that's not. There's no patch or peel or anything supplement that's going to fix this. You have to get a therapist, you have to do the work.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah, that's, and this echoes so much of what I talk about just on a regular basis. You know, everyone knows. Okay, this is I talk about lifestyle, improving your lifestyle to have better health and fitness. And this is all about work. It's not just going to happen with wishful thinking. You can't magically achieve these goals without putting in some effort. So first thing I tell folks patients or clients or otherwise is if you're not ready to put in some work, then you're not ready for the transformation, because you're going to have to make some, you're going to have to take some steps because you're undoing 10, 20, 30, maybe even 40 years right Of in-house behavior, dysfunctional thoughts, poor emotional intelligence, all the things these are.

Angela Andrews, MD:

It's not. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. All these things impact each other. I mean you talked about your mental health and your eating habits and that was a. That was a. All that was. That's all tied together. These things don't happen in isolation. And at the time that you had recommended your therapist to me, I mean I've actually I've been doing fine, but I was like you know what? You're right, I know I'm going to need to have someone at some point. So I better see if she is going to, if she's a good fit for me. So when that time comes again, because there's been moments, I got somebody.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

And you can always, you know, increase or decrease the frequency of your visits. You know, when I first started seeing her, I went every week and there were different times where we backed off to once a month but then picked it back up to every two weeks. You know, just to kind of check in, my daughter has a therapist and she, you know, there was a time period where her therapist was like, okay, I think that she, she's doing, okay, she just wants to come play with the toys. But then COVID happened and they were, you know, homeschooling, and we had another friend of mine pass away and her dad and I got divorced and like all that, got remarried, like all these life events that for a child, wouldn't even begin to know how to express those feelings. So now we picked it back up again. So now it's every other week instead of just once a month check in.

Angela Andrews, MD:

So yes, that is that is important. I mean, and a lot of times, and especially, I mean we're. We're talking about kids here, but you know this starts at a young age. It's all about developing coping strategies and if you don't have healthy coping strategies, those snowball into more, in deeper problems and you know, down the road. So that doesn't mean that you can't do anything about it. Later in life it's going to be a little bit tougher. But just because you didn't figure it out as a kid or your parents didn't put you in therapy when you were like a preteen, adolescent or whatever, that's not an excuse to not try now.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

So therapy is expensive too, so that that kind of sometimes takes people out of running. Even you know I haven't held insurance, but even you know a $50 copay for each visit, that's not a lot of money that people can't afford to use.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah, that's. That's a huge barrier for a lot of my patients, like they like don't either have time or, more often than not, it's it's the money, it's the fact they're coming out of pocket or they're they're the therapist that their insurance does cover is not available for a year. So what do we do with?

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

that I would. You know. My thinking is that we would normalize healthcare where there would be therapy available for elementary school students have a check in, just like how they do math and science and art and gym. You have a mental health day or where the kids just get to go talk to someone, where they experience it. They also say that's fine, but it just takes the stigma away because everybody's doing it. So just, everybody wants an iPhone, everybody wants Jordan, everybody needs a therapist.

Angela Andrews, MD:

So just come normalize, because then you would start laying the foundation of those skills earlier on.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

So then, with those that can't afford it. You know, when they become adults they can prioritize it, or a lot of times they end up talking us right. They're well women visits.

Angela Andrews, MD:

That's another point. So that's something that you and I are very passionate about, and there are a lot of clinicians out there who end up diving or delving into this pseudo therapy, mental health space, right. So primary care well women doesn't, you know? Well, women care doesn't have to just be about getting your A1C checked and your CMP and lipids and you know, all your preventative vaginal screenings and cervical cancer screen, all the things right. It's not just that. So let's talk about what the whole person, the whole person. So how do you dive into that, like, how do you encounter that in your practice with your patients?

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

We always have. We always offer the depression screening, whether it's the PHU4 or, excuse me, the Ed Berg for pregnant women. So, depending on what that score is, or we just kind of check in and ask how they're doing, and sometimes the visit turns into an hour when we only had 20 minutes. You just really needed someone to talk to you and I think a lot of times patients don't realize that. Not slow I have, some patients need extra time, so that's why we're running behind.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Amen to that, yes, yes, yes, I I'm very passionate about that. If someone needs the time, I'm going to give it to them, and I've. I've been with my patients and my practice is mature enough now to where people know that if I'm running behind, I'm giving someone the time that they need because and then when I see them, they'll get the time that they need, right it's. And, yeah, that might push me back a little bit. Hopefully I have a few little sick visits in there somewhere to help me. But that's a really important part of of um, checking in with people and taking care of people. And have you ever had one of these situations where someone comes in and says, oh, I'm fine, and then you go, fine, you sure, really you sure about that? And like I, I'll literally say that to people you ever have any situations like that All?

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

the time, cause everybody wants to be fine. You know we put this pressure on ourselves to keep up with the Joneses and to put on this brave face for people that still watch commercials. There was, you know, the commercials for depression medication, where it shows the lady holding a mask up with the smiling face instead, of smiling herself Um, that's what, that's what we do. We do this all the time. So a lot of times it just takes one else asking like are you really okay?

Angela Andrews, MD:

And then the water works come, um, yes, so, speaking of keeping up with the Joneses, one of the reasons this came up not not not only because we were talking about this last night and this is this topic of conversation comes up many times when we're, when we're together, but it's the holiday season, we have Christmas, there's Hanukkah, um, there's just.

Angela Andrews, MD:

This is this is a overwhelming time of year for a lot of people, Right? So if you could, just let's just kind of talk about our you know, our top pieces of advice or top things that we want to make sure that people think about, because mental health is all year round. Like, this is not something you just like seasonally deal with, but there are seasons, um, whether it's when you're dealing with loss, um, and holiday time, Christmas time, birthdays these can be times that remind us of losses and this, but this time of year is really bad, Um it is, and we're in Michigan, so there's no sun and just, it just intensifies everything.

Angela Andrews, MD:

You were telling us there about a nerdy.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Really, she has five children and it was probably three or four weeks ago she was saying that, oh my goodness, I went up and so stressed about it and I think her oldest is maybe 12 or 13. So, um, guess this is four, I believe. So, um, I always just say, and grateful for the things that they, whatever it is they get. So don't do it. You don't have to make everything, it doesn't have to be a surprise. Uh, elf on a shelf is too much work, Don't do it. Sure, you know you. Why are you stressing yourself out? No one would know whether you have an elf in your house unless you post the photos on Facebook and Instagram. That pressure on you to do those things.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

I um, personally, one of the things that they said years ago at church cause we also go to the same church was want, need, where read things, things that you focus on for your children. You know something that they want. They need something to wear and something to read, and that way you take all the pressure off to fulfill this long, expensive list, cause kids understand money and how it works, so they'll ask for whatever it is that they see, and so that makes it easy for you to shop and it makes everybody equal and everybody gets one thing that they want. And this is not supposed to be about who will host. Yes, so that way you could just limit it to those those four things.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah, I think that's incredibly important. First thing you mentioned was not putting the pressure on yourself, and this point that you brought up is placing limits. So, if you go into the season, placing limits on things, so limits on your spending, limits on how you're going to use your time, limits on who you are going to well use your time and give your time to, and also defining what's important to you and what do you want to get out of the holiday is what do you want to get out of the season. So, like those limits are important. So, when the limits at our household is also said is I had a hard time with Santa Claus. I didn't want to do Santa Claus, but I feel like I got pressured into it cause I didn't want to be the only kid without Santa Claus.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

I remember this conversation.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah, gosh, okay, so I did it. We have Santa, but Santa only brings one gift and the rest come from mommy and daddy, and that, and we don't we don't even give a lot of gifts. I mean, he's got plenty of friends and family, so he doesn't need a lot anyway. But that was one of our limits is, you know, there's like a super duper, one special gift that comes from Santa. Um, and that was one of our limits. And similarly, the the want, need, where read concept. So I think that's important. So, set limits.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

And when the kids get older, you know, and the gifts become more expensive or they just have everything they need. Um, I started planning trips, activities or something that they'll remember, cause I don't remember what I got for Christmas when I was 10 years old. I can't tell you. There's a couple of gifts that stand out that I kept for a long time or was really excited about. You know, we got our first Nintendo, you know something like that, but otherwise I can't even tell you what we got. But I can tell you about every vacation that we went on, you know when. It was something that could happen. So, instead of spending, you know, $1,000 trying to, you know, get things for your kids and are doing those things. This year, ellie and I were going to see the Trans-Hiberian Orchestra and doing something as Emily, and then we're also going to go see the Color Purple. Oh, so good, it was day. So, yeah, color Purple musical is coming out and we used to do that you know, with our other friend, Alisa.

Angela Andrews, MD:

We would go to the movies on Christmas. Day. Okay, that was a thing. We need to restart that tradition over here, like starting this year.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

It just takes the pressure off Like we don't need to sit around for eight hours opening up gifts. And I still. I started getting the matching Christmas pajamas because I think the cute ones are the best If you know something, that now my kids are to the point where they can wear these pajamas indefinitely. So there's your wear right, right, right. How does it give?

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah, new pajamas. So something I also like people to understand is that people may not remember the things that you do for them, but they'll remember how you made them feel. And you don't have. It was going to make me emotional. You don't have to spend a lot of money to make someone feel good and kids.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

It comes down to you know like I've lost both my parents and a sibling and it just you remember those moments, you remember the feeling. I don't remember every gift my parents bought me, but I remember their presence and I remember the time that we spent Right and memories that I want to create.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Maybe if we make the holidays so as much as we're talking about our individual feelings as as people like you, will preserve your own mental health if you focus on how you can pour into someone else and that doesn't involve expensive gifts, it involves time and attention and love and you we need to show focus on the non-tangibles and the time together and the experiences, and that will be so much more gratifying and a heck of a lot distressing and way more beneficial to you and your family If you do that.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

It makes you happy. You know like I really love wrapping gifts. I love wrapping gifts. Back when they had the wrapping paper stations at the stores, when people bought gifts in person, I used to say I'm going to volunteer here and wrap gifts because I enjoy wrapping gifts and I need to buy all these gifts. I could just volunteer to wrap other people's gifts for them.

Angela Andrews, MD:

But you just don't really enjoy decorating, just like I wrap. You know what I wrap I wrap. I wrap our pictures in our house. That's one of the things I wrap.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

I told my husband. I said I'm just going to end up, you know, having some boxes that are wrapped and then we use that to decorate the tree and we'll just have less gifts. You think so crazy, but I did that one year. I mean it's very rapid yeah totally.

Angela Andrews, MD:

I saved a bunch of.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

If you'd like to decorate, go ahead and decorate. If you don't, then don't.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Right and that, oh my gosh. So that's point number three. So number one was was it expectation? Number two was setting limits. And number three, if you don't like it, don't do it. Right, no is a complete sentence.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Yes, you remember that no is a complete sentence.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yes, I had a patient that I had a follow up with today and last month we met and I'm seeing her for weight loss counseling and she's not. She's not any medications. She's been kind of like doing this more lifestyles modification much slower process for her and she's really. She was really stressed about Christmas and you know, okay, of course I got into the conversation, okay why and there was, she was anticipating seeing relatives and being around people that she didn't want to be around. So I said why? Who said you had to do that? Like why, just don't? So I talked with her today and she's not, she's not doing that and you know she is. She was just like this relief, this weight was off of her shoulder.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

She's there the weight, and it's so great, so great.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah, I've gotten really good at saying no. I'm not all the time, but I think you've heard no from me a lot more.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

That's two years.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Getting better.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Yes, nope, nope. I can't do that, and you don't have to explain why.

Angela Andrews, MD:

You have to explain why and you know if you want to be real bold, just say I don't want to. No, that's okay, that's okay. Stop stop being worried about other people's feelings because, guess what, no one's going to protect your feelings. You need to protect your feelings.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

So there is a song by an artist and I am trying to blank on his name, but he has a song called boundaries and the entire song is him saying the word no in multiple different ways, Like no. And then you know, in the background it's I'm setting boundaries.

Angela Andrews, MD:

I think I'm going to have to include a link to that in the podcast notes. That sounds great.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

So key takeaways.

Angela Andrews, MD:

All right, what are the final key takeaways? We came up with three things right Tations or realistic expectations. I don't know what do you want to say?

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

that first one is just have to keep up with the Joneses.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yeah.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Don't keep up with the Joneses. I think you should really limit those things. That was probably the first one. It was just normalizing care, seeking it out before crisis mode. If you can, you know, having them available when you need it. And then number two making sure you, you know, want, need, where read is a you know example doesn't have you know, have to follow that, but it's easy to remember. So that way you don't feel the pressure, all the things, and keep up with everybody else.

Angela Andrews, MD:

And the the the final one, the final things, which applies across the board all year long, is that no is a complete sentence.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

If you don't want to do it, then don't. Life is short. Yes, Life is short. It's too short to do you. There's always going to be things that you have to do that you don't want to do. Don't add to the list.

Angela Andrews, MD:

Yes, please don't. If you don't have to do it, don't add to the list and you don't want to do it, then that means you don't do it. That's simple as that. Just don't. Oh, my goodness. So yeah, liberating All right. Thank you so much for taking time out with me tonight. I know this was a little bit last minute, but I knew that you would bring some good insight, because this is something we talk about a lot.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Oh pleasure.

Angela Andrews, MD:

I'm proud of you All right. Well, I know we'll have to do more podcasts, but I wanted to get this one out there before Christmas so that people can chill out.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

If you say no, I can do that.

Angela Andrews, MD:

If nothing, if you remember nothing else, just say no.

Roneidra Lucky, CNM:

Say no to your kids, no to your family, whatever it is yes, whoever it may be, just say no.

Angela Andrews, MD:

All right, thanks for joining us. This is Dr Angela Lifestyle MD. Please join us next time as we have another special guest who is one of my Dr Friends, dr Sanborn, who does obesity medicine management. She'll be on to talk to us about some of her advice regarding not only just weight management, but also holding it through the holidays. All right, take care, guys. Bye. This has been another episode of the Lifestyle MD. Special. Thank you to Lou Musa for the show theme music creating with brief photography and makeup by Jenae for the cover photo. And if you enjoyed this podcast and you haven't already, please subscribe today and share with another woman doctor who may benefit. You may also follow me on Instagram at Angela Lifestyle MD. I am Dr Angela. Thank you for joining me today.